SSL Certificate, One Year On
September 23rd, 2019
by Gwyn Headley
Managing Director
fotoLibra users will have noticed the site has been difficult to reach over the past few days, peppered with warnings that This Is An Insecure Site.
It’s because we didn’t have an SSL Certificate. SSL stands for Secure Sockets Layer, and is a digital code to prove that we are who we say we are on line. It costs about £100 a year. We bought ours from a company called 123-Reg.
They sent me a questionnaire to ask what I thought of their service. Here’s how I replied:
To Ben Law
123-Reg Brand Director
Hello Ben
Are you sure you want to read this? It’s not very complimentary. But then I’ve never had such bad service from a company in my working life.
We bought a two year SSL Certificate from you in September 2017.
In August 2018 you summarily revoked it, and our website was down for five days. No reason was given and no admission of guilt was made. The certificate was stealthily renewed after five days.
In order to prevent this happening again, I contacted you on August 16th 2019 to get our SSL, which was due to expire on September 13th, sorted long before I went on holiday on September 1st.
It happened again.
Here is my increasingly desperate correspondence with 123-Reg, attempting to renew or replace our SSL Certificate.
I have removed your boilerplate “If there’s anything else at all I can do for you please let me know and I’ll be very happy to help” from the following correspondence as it’s not true, and is intensely irritating,
Also the slogan ‘We Make It Easy’ appears on your home page. After reading through this correspondence, please tell me if you honestly believe that to be a valid claim.
AUGUST 16th
Gwyn to 123-Reg
gwyn.headley
16.8.2019. 12:51
We received the following email from you.“Don’t risk losing your services (www.fotoLibra.com)
Gwyn,
The product(s) listed below are due for renewal. We’ll attempt to take payment from your PayPal account on or around 30/08/2019 to ensure the continuation of your service. You can view and update your payment settings here.
Organisational SSL www.fotolibra.com £191.98 two years
SSL certificates need to be renewed 14 days in advance of their expiry date in order to avoid interruption of your service. An SSL renewal goes through the same process as the original SSL setup, so we urge that you log in upon renewal and confirm that all settings are correct.”We bought a two year organisational SSL from you in September 2017, which will expire in September 2019. In August 2018 you mistakenly revoked this SSL, with the result that our company was off line for five days through your error.
We do not want this to happen again this year. I have logged into 123-Reg and ensured that I have two active payment methods set up for you. We would like you to deliver our renewed SSL certificate as soon as possible to avoid the inevitable complications.
Also, when we click on our SSL Overview on your ‘Dashboard’ we read
www.fotolibra.com Organisational SSL Expired 13/09/2019
If the renewal date is not due until 13/09/2019, how has it expired?AUGUST 17th
Mihai-Marian
17.8.2019. 23:34
Hi Gwyn,
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
I’ve made a few checks on the Organisational SSL certificate assigned to www.fotolibra.com and in our systems this shows as revoked, however, I’ve checked the status of the SSL certificate with our Certificate Authority and in their records, the SSL certificate shows as active until the 13th of September 2019.
Also, to double-check this, I ran a test here: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=www.fotolibra.com
It may be best that in this specific situation to purchase a new SSL certificate and apply this to www.fotolibra.com
You can purchase the SSL certificate from https://www.123-reg.co.uk/ssl-certificates/ and apply it to your domain as per https://www.123-reg.co.uk/support/ssl-certificates/how-do-i-apply-an-ssl-certificate/.
Here https://www.123-reg.co.uk/voucher-codes/ you can find a voucher code for a discount on a new SSL certificate.
Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you.
Kind Regards,
Mihai-Marian
123 RegAUGUST 20th
gwyn.headley
20.8.2019. 10:10
Thank you. How can your system possibly show our SSL Certificate as revoked when by your own admission it isn’t?
Gwyngwyn.headley
20.8.2019. 10:30
Thank you for the voucher code for the discount on renewing our SSL Certificate with you. On reading the small print it says “This offer shall expire on 31st January 2019.” Can you send us an update please?
GwynDanny
20.8.2019. 11:01
Hi Gwyn,
On the page https://www.123-reg.co.uk/voucher-codes/ it says that the voucher code will expire on the 1st of January, 2020.
Please rest assured that the voucher code is active and will work.
However, you have made a confusion. My colleague advised that it is best to purchase a new SSL certificate. The voucher can only be used on a new purchase and does not apply for renewals.
As per the email sent to you, we will try to renew the current SSL certificate on the 30th of August.
If you want to benefit from the discount, I can set the current SSL certificate to not auto renew and you can purchase a new SSL certificate around the same date, 30th of August.
If you wish to keep the current SSL certificate, we will attempt to renew it for you on the 30th of August.
Regards,
DannyAUGUST 23rd
Gwyn
gwyn.headley
23.8.2019. 16:29
OK, as I understand this — if you take money from my active PayPal account on or about August 30th then the SSL certificate will automatically renew for two years and we don’t have to do anything. Is that correct?
However if we buy a NEW certificate from you within the next week as you recommend, we get a 25% discount for the first year, but then we have to get a new certificate from you and install it, which has previously led to astonishingly unnecessary complications and a random cancellation and improper revoking of our certificate this time last year.
An additional problem is that I am away for the first three weeks of September and our Technical Development Manager who would have to install the new SSL does not get any emails, data or, of course, the SSL certificate from you.
What do you suggest we do?
GwynAUGUST 24th
Support Agent
Mihai-Marian
24.8.2019. 18:11
Hi Gwyn,
As you have PayPal selected as the 1st Payment method, our system will try to automatically renew the SSL certificate on/about 30th of August 2019.
If you purchase a new SSL certificate, the same type with the same billing period of two years you would actually benefit two discounts, 20% from purchasing this for two years and 25% from the voucher code as per the simulation we ran on your account as you may confirm from the attached screenshot (we left this in your basket just in case).
The total cost including VAT would be £115.19 for a new SSL certificate while the renewal cost is £191.98 including VAT.
In both situations (either a new SSL certificate or a renewal), the issued SSL certificate will have to be installed again on your server.
If you opt for a new SSL certificate, you would also have to pass again a vetting process with our SSL certificate provider Starfield, this is due to the degree of trust it provides.
In regards to the “Technical Development Manager” query, this won’t be something we can advise on.
Kind Regards,
Mihai-Marian
123 RegSEPTEMBER 1st: I GO ON HOLIDAY with limited email access
SEPTEMBER 3rd
gwyn.headley
3.9.2019. 16:03
Hello, have you taken the SSL renewal fee from my PayPal account? Whe can we have the renewed certificate?
ATB, Gwyn HeadleySupport Agent
Gabriel
3.9.2019. 19:20
Hi Gwyn,
The renewal was not yet made automatically.
Currently, the old certificate is still available. You can wait for the renewal to be made automatically or purchase a new certificate, using the discount my colleagues have provided with you.
Kind Regards,
Gabriel
123 RegSEPTEMBER 7th
Gwyn
gwyn.headley
7.9.2019. 08:37
PLEASE take my money and supply the renewed SSL Certificate as soon as possible! Gwyn Headley7.9.2019. 10:35
Hi Gwyn,
I have checked and I’m to let you know that it is not possible to renew the current SSL certificate for www.fotolibra.com.
As such, I kindly ask you to purchase a new SSL certificate and assign it to www.fotolibra.com.
We are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.
Regards,
Danny
123 RegSEPTEMBER 10th: I BUY NEW SSL CERTIFICATE FROM 123-REG
SEPTEMBER 13th
WWW.FOTOLIBRA.COM SSL CERTIFICATE REVOKED. SITE WARNING APPEARS.
This site can’t be reached
The connection was reset.
Try:
Checking the connection
Checking the proxy and the firewall
ERR_CONNECTION_RESETgwyn.headley
13.9.2019. 09:40
Hello, I bought an SSL Certificate from you on 10th September. Where is it?
Gwyn HeadleySupport Agent
Mihai-Marian
13.9.2019. 09:58
Hi Gwyn,
I’ve checked your account and the SSL certificate you have purchased was not assigned to any domain names.
To apply this to your domain, please follow the steps from: https://www.123-reg.co.uk/support/ssl-certificates/how-do-i-apply-an-ssl-certificate/
Also, as this is an Organisation SSL, you will have to pass through a vetting process with our SSL certificate provider Starfield.
You can read more about this here: https://www.123-reg.co.uk/support/ssl-certificates/what-is-the-vetting-procedure-when-purchasing-an-ssl/
Kind Regards,
Mihai-Marian
123 Reggwyn.headley
13.9.2019. 19:14
We did a vetting process with Starfield last year AND the year before. What is going on?
Gwyngwyn.headley
13.9.2019. 19:18
Hang about, I have looked at the vetting requirements which we fulfilled last year AND the year before:
Been a registered company for a minimum of 3 years
Be in the Dun & Bradstreet database
Provide a lawyer’s letter stating that you have a deposit account with a regulated financial institution.
We have been a registered company since 2004. We are still in the D&B database. We provided a lawyer’s letter stating that we have a deposit account with a regulated financial institution two years ago. You want another?
We did all this last year and the year before that. What are you trying to do to us?????
GwynSupport Agent
Alexandru
13.9.2019. 19:28
Hi Gwyn,
As this is regarding a new SSL Certificate that has not been assigned to your domain name, you will need to undergo the vetting procedure once more.
If this was regarding an SSL Certificate renewal, the vetting process would not have happened.
However, as this is regarding a new SSL Certificate, your request must undergo the vetting procedure once more.
Kind Regards,
Alexandru
123 RegSEPTEMBER 14th
gwyn.headley
14.9.2019. 09:06
We asked for our SSL certificate to be renewed automatically. This you failed to do, neither would you tell us why. You wrote:
“Danny
7.9.2019. 10:35
Hi Gwyn,
I have checked and I’m to let you know that it is not possible to renew the current SSL certificate for www.fotolibra.com.
As such, I kindly ask you to purchase a new SSL certificate and assign it to www.fotolibra.com.
We are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.”
This is causing incredible inconvenience. We have bought the SSL certificate from you, but our site is down and we cannot trade and you will not tell us why it was not possible to renew our SSL certificate. We haven’t heard anything from this American outfit you collaborate with.
What is going on?Support Agent
Danny
14.9.2019. 09:38
Hi Gwyn,
When the SSL certificate was revoked last year by Sarfield, it was cancelled directly from their system.
This has caused a mismatch between our system and the SSL certificate that was re-issued.
Due to the above, the auto renewal process has failed as the SSL certificate we have in our system was actually cancelled.
We are sorry for any inconvenience caused by this.
Please assign the new SSL certificate you purchased to www.fotolibra.com.
Regards,
Danny
123 RegGwyn
gwyn.headley
14.9.2019. 18:03
Thank you for a partial reply. Please can you upgrade our complaint to a supervisor?
WHY did Sarfield wrongly revoke our two year SSL Certificate last year halfway through its purchased life, causing us untold problems? It was not their rôle to do that. You claim on your home page that ‘We make it easy!’ This is clearly not true. You caused us immense problems by revoking our SSL Certificate this time last year and you have managed to do it again this year.
It’s now Saturday 14 September, 18:00. We paid you for the new SSL Certificate on Wednesday 9th September, before 12:00. We still have heard nothing from your inept Americans.
Please chase them up staright away. You are seriously damaging our business. We need that certificate. If you could actually live up to your closing boiler plate paragraph “If there’s anything else at all I can do for you please let me know and I’ll be very happy to help” I would be slightly comforted.
Gwyn HeadleySEPTEMBER 15th
Support Agent
Danny
15.9.2019. 07:20
Hi Gwyn,
Last year, Starfield has discovered that the SSL certificate was not up to the latest security standards and had to revoke it and issue a new one. All was explained via emails sent to you at that time.
We are truly sorry for the troubles this has caused.
Starfield has not contacted you until now for the new SSL certificate as you have not yet assigned the certificate to a domain.
Please either assign the SSL certificate yourself or let us know that we can assign it for you with the same details as the old one.
Regards,
Danny
123 RegGwyn
gwyn.headley
15.9.2019. 09:28
No, not explained last year by email. If Starfield had to revoke it because the certificate THEY issued was was not up to the latest security standards why then did WE have to suffer a five day hiatus in our service?
The domain, as you might have guessed, is www.fotoLibra.com, as it has been since 2004.
Please assign it for us with the same details as the old one. As quickly as you can, please.
Gwyn HeadleySupport Agent
Danny
15.9.2019. 09:59
Hi Gwyn,
I have now assigned the SSL certificate to www.fotolibra.com. You will be contacted by Starfield for the vetting process at gwyn.headley@fotolibra.com.
Regards,
Danny
123 RegSEPTEMBER 19th
STARFIELD RINGS US TO VERIFY THE TELEPHONE NUMBER WE HAVE HELD SINCE 2002
gwyn.headley
19.9.2019. 14:08
We have received an email from you:
MUST BE INSTALLED ON YOUR WEB SERVER:
Your Intermediate Certificate
– – – – – –
Your SSL Certificate (Formatted for the majority of web server software including IIS and Apache based servers):
—–BEGIN CERTIFICATE—–
MIIGfzCCBWegAwIBAgIIGDU9LSDnSrgwDQY etc etc etc
It’s blank underneath ‘Your Intermediate Certificate’. Should there be one there? Or is your message simply confusing and ‘Your Intermediate Certificate’ and ‘Your SSL Certificate’ are one and the same thing?
Gwyn HeadleyHey, Ben, if you’ve read this far, do let me know. Or are you a robot?
Yours,
Gwyn Headley
Our vaild, working SSL Certificate was finally received and installed today, September 23rd. We have been offline for ten days entirely due to the ineptitude of 123-Reg.
And you know what? There hasn’t been any reply to my correspondence with them.
I apologise to all fotoLibra users for this outage which as you can see was beyond our control.
It’s typical, bloody typical. We are not dealing with human beings, we are dealing with robots and algorhythms, and even when they are human beings, they act like robots. Unfortunately good old fashioned customer service seems to have vanished from the planet.
Hi Gwyn. I’ve read the whole post and it’s given me a headache.
🙂
I’m afraid you are unlikely to be the first, last or only company/person to suffer 123-reg’s ineptitude.
As Tony Quinn says below.
We have had similar, and worse dealings with 123. We finally (far too late) moved over 700 domains, hosting, dedicated server and more away from them this year, I made it my personal mission to end any and all business relationships with them once and for all time.
We still get spurious emails for renewals for domains and services they no longer provide.
They lost us two important domains during the process, despite having taken renewal payments they allowed both to lapse and would offer no more than a refund of the fee.
Leave them as soon as you can.
Forever.
That is a terrible, damning story. Thank you for sharing it. I just had a message from our former TDM, who wrote:
“I just read your SSL certificates post. Have you seen https://letsencrypt.org/. They do SSL certifies completely free of charge, and I’ve never heard of an instance of them prematurely revoking one.”
So that’s where we’ll be going.
Commiserations – I use names.co.uk who have been exceptionally helpful and with whom there has never been an issue!
That’s a good recommendation.
Thank you Gwyn for this update on the SSL problem.
I can empathize because I’ve recently had to run at full speed to buy and install an SSL Certificate for my own domain when the hosting company’s own Certificate expired, and like yours, it happened without warning. (I’m with a different web-hosting company, not 123-Reg.)
In my case I also lost access to the email accounts on that domain until the new SSL Certificate was installed.
It’s remarkable that our web sites (and email) are at such risk of being totally broken *without warning*, given that we choose to pay good money ostensibly for “trouble free hosting …”! Ha!
There’s clearly a disjointed relationship between our hosting companies and the SSL Certificate providers, and our laggardly hosting companies are being caught with their pants down.
Neil wrote “I just read your SSL certificates post. Have you seen https://letsencrypt.org/. They do SSL certifies completely free of charge, and I’ve never heard of an instance of them prematurely revoking one.”
123-Reg pray on those companies that aren’t technically aware. Anyone in the know avoids sharks like this.
Since Google starting downgrading sites without SSL a few years back, I had server side scripts developed that automatically renew my FREE certificates every 3 months. So far not a single blip in years and, other than the cost of initial development, not a further £ spent.
There’s no reason in this day and age why SSL certificates should cost, but then there’s no reason in this day adage why unscrupulous companies like 123-Reg should either.
Vote with your wallet.
We are learning fast. Clearly we weren’t in the know — but thanks to you and others we are now!
letsencrypt.org is what I (like it seems many of your other contacts) on all my domains. It expires after 90 days but the scripts we had written auto renew and re-install it!
Suggest issuing a CCJ to 123-Reg. They’ll probably just ignore it and it’ll be rules in your favour.
Yes, I am very tempted to issue a CCJ. But I recoil from legal proceedings as sharply as Mr Johnson. Nevertheless I am thinking about it. We have lost fifteen days’ business in total die to their incompetence.
Unbelievable, how do these people hold a job down no wonder the country is in such a mess
Totally agree.
Oh, my God!
I have my site on WP and I installed my SSL FREE OF CHARGE!
I just installed a free plugin named Really Simple SSL
I am not a hacker, I just followed instructions and installed it.
If I were enough stupid I could sell that certificate for 200$!
OK, OK, we’re learning here!
Elizabeth Cannnon wrote: “I have read your msg from beginning to end, phew! And words fail me. All I can say is UNBELIEVABLE!
A pity there us no alternative as I am sure you would have taken it.”
And I replied “But there is an alternative! Since I wrote the posts several helpful people have pointed out where we can get SSLs for free.”
Do these guys understand the concept of “service” – or have any idea of basic business principles? Maybe if enough businesses discover other businesses doing the same job as they do, but better, with proper service, and perhaps cheaper, and leave 123-Reg, the penny might drop – shortly before they themselves suddenly discover they no longer HAVE a business. Or then again, more likely after the business has collapsed.
Thank you Julia — lovely to hear from you! — but people have been so supportive, informative and helpful that I think we can put our 123-Reg days behind us very soon.
You think you’ve had a problem. Cast a thought to me. Am on the ISS and really worried about getting home. Came by Thomas Cook, need I say any more….
Always look on the bright side of life te dum, te dum te dum te dum.
🙂
Christine Osborne writes: “Dear Gwyn
I am so sorry for your troubles with this. I can’t read all through it as too depressing in view of similar inefficiencies here.
Kind regards
Christine”
I had the same problems with digital TV & Broadband owned by Richard Bransons group. I kicked them into touch.
“The right hand doesn’t what the left is doing” and yes customer service is none existent these days (except for Fotolibra of course)
Aw, shucks!
Yes I do like your info keep it up I have some pictures I would like to send to you.
Thank you Michael
I think you’ve given them way too many chances and would have been better of going with someone else this year when it was due to be renewed. There’s nothing stopping you from moving away before the renewal date this time, which might not be as soon as they decide to revoke the certificate anyway by the sounds of it.
I am so sorry you are having this problem and hope it can be fixed for you very soon.I like your company and have pictures you may like having just returned from Denver usa and Vetnam plus other places. Some of these pictures you can have a look at Michael Hopkinson Hayes.hope you like them I have many more ready.
Look forward to hearing from you
Michael
I agree with Richard Bradley if I could help I would be pleased to do so.
Michael